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10 + 10 = 25?

December 3, 2008

<Unemployed> had their first ‘official’ Naxxramas raid last night.  I obviously didn’t go, since I’m not near 80 yet and I was out seeing Quantum of Solace, so I missed the action and how it went.  But seeing the roster of who had signed up to raid on Tuesday and who actually went has brought up some concerns I’ve had.

There were about 16-17 level 80 characters signed up with hopes of raiding with the guild last night.  This is understandable, since just a couple of months ago, we were having 25+ people sign up for raiding regularly, and we’ve gotten several new recruits since our BC raiding days.

But Naxx is only a 10 man raid.  Which means once our 25 raiders get to 80, only 10 of them will be getting to raid each night.  We could possibly build a second group if we have proper class balance, but even then, that means at least 5 people are being left out each raid night.  And I think there is a limit to how often people would like to be told to go run heroics instead, since eventually that’s not what they’ll be wanting to sign up for.

One of the things I have been most excited about is getting into the new raids and being present for some more guild first, feeling like I’m part of a team who works together 3 days a week.  Although I’m not a raid leader and I don’t really get to hear about the decisions the leaders make about who gets to go, these are the only possibilities I can see coming to pass:

  1. We run 2 groups, 1 of the ‘top geared heavy hitters’ and 1 of the people who took too long to get to 80.
  2. We swap around groups, alternating which people are in which group, thus causing problems coordinating people and strategies since there are no solid teams, and leaving people disappointed for being benched at the last minute.
  3. Raid nights get split up, and we have two groups running different days, so those with multiple 80s can get in on the action every day of the week, and people don’t have to deal with being benched when they are sitting there waiting for invites at raid time.

I can’t really say which option I think is the best.  They all have pretty big downsides, and I do not look forward to any drama to come.

I understand that the guild wants to do what’s best for the guild as a whole, and that a lot of people are focused on progressing as quickly as possible.  Which means, since it is taking me a couple more weeks than everyone else to get to 80, I may not get much chance of raiding with the people I want to, or with the frequency I’d like.  It’s likely I’ll be the 5th hunter in <Unemployed> to reach level 80, which makes my prospects of getting into a 10 man raid pretty grim.  But my concern is not just for myself, I don’t want any of our raiders feeling left out.

I’d like to say, I do not regret my decision to take things slow in Wrath.  I’m really enjoying each level and the experiences I’m gaining through them.  I’m glad I focused on school when it was necessary, and spending my weekends with my dear Dwarf Hunter are much more important than rushing to 80.  I just hope my decision doesn’t cost me in the end.

I can’t be the only person who is flummoxed by the math here.  I’m sure there are other guilds who had 25 raiders who are returning and looking for more of the same intense progression and action.  It’s a tough decision, and I do not envy any raid leaders who have to make it.  How do you take 25+ people and stick them into a raid that only fits 10 (or possibly 20)?

Brajana – Level 78 Troll Hunter

  • Skinning: 450
  • Leatherworking: 424
  • First Aid: 418
  • Fishing: 392
  • Cooking: 400
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8 comments

  1. There will always be people that aren’t happy with the way group and raids are slotted. The hope is that the majority are happy, and the grouping has been done in a somewhat logical and justifiable manner.

    In BC I was involved in a situation that evolved into option #1 as you outlined above, and essentially what happened was that the second group to get into 10-mans felt like the “B Team” (or second class raiders if you will) and it caused no small amount of tension for a little while.

    Personally, I lean toward option #2 and I feel it behooves me to point out that there is as much if not more benefit to shuffling the groups on a regular basis. Yes, it will slow things down for the 10 man raiding but for the 25 man raiding it means that everyone will have had the opportunity to get used to the play styles we will be dealing with (tanking and healing styles in particular). It also allows the opportunity to share insights that one group may have ferreted out after throwing themselves at the content in a different way.

    Solid teams would be ideal imo, but I personally feel that we (this being Unemployed) don’t have the breadth of experience amongst all our raiders to set these up and NOT have people get locked in to doing it one specific way (nor do we have the volume of raiders to ensure that these groups would regularly be running instances.

    Hmmm, time to level my tank again I guess.


  2. We go by #2 – I was the last hunter to hit 80, and because of this, the other four (!) hunters that had run Naxx and a ton of heroics already already had a considerable amount of gear, and willingly bowed out for me to get geared up. As long as you know the fights, there is no reason not to have an exchange of players.

    The second option is also ideal because we know that some people cannot make all the raids while they are still optional (we won’t start mandatory raids until January, since the holidays are a bitch, and school is finishing up). This leaves 5+ people available to replace those that cannot come at a later date.


  3. Yeah, #2 is probably the best option. I think I was figuring this would be less likely to happen, because people want to progress, so eventually #2 would gravitate toward becoming #1.

    I guess I have it set in my mind that a lot of people are aiming towards rushing through the content as quickly as possible, so the slower, more balanced option would end up being overlooked or mishandled or frowned upon.


  4. Errr…

    But Naxx is only a 10 man raid.

    It’s both. >_>;


  5. I know it’s both. But we’re not going to be doing heroic raids for a while now, and I don’t think they want people to be waiting around til they can jump in at 25. People will probably need to have some experience in the 10-man first, if not the gear as well.


  6. Well, realistically, the gear from heroics (at least the epics) is at the same item level as the ones from Naxx-10 (aside from Kel’s drops), so if you’re geared out in epic drops from Heroics, you should be fine to start making your way into Naxx 25.

    And most people consider Naxx 25 easier (aside from the requirement for 2 Priests, ideally Shadow) than Naxx 10.


  7. What we’ve been doing is this –

    Get our core group in, run what bosses we can, and whoever needs a specific piece of loot from a specific boss enters the group when it’s time for said boss. That way, people will get geared, the group mechanics won’t be off-whack, and everyone will get their turn during the week.

    But we are also a very old, very tight-knit guild, so most of us have no issues feeling left out or jealous.


  8. My guild does both. 25 man naxx is actually a ton easier then 10 man is. One thing your guild might could try is early week do the 10 man version and later in the week do the 25 man. We raid 4 nights a week, first 2 are 10’s third one is Malygos, Archavon, and Sartharion, 4th is 25 man naxx. we dont clear it yet, but it gets everyone in at least one raid a week, and gets them thinking about large group tactics vs small group.

    But that’s just one guilds way of doing things, it may not work for your guild.



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